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What is it about nice people that attract total idiots?Nice people are martyrs. Idiots are evangelists.


Sunday, October 6, 2013

One last on the shutdown.

You've all heard both my comments on the post midweek and the replies to the comments I've made on this subject.  I would have left it at that, except...

A blog friend posted Obama's weekly speech about ending the shutdown.  Now I really could care less about what Obama had to say; but a commenter had this to say:

President Obama is absolutely right.
Too many mainstream Republicans are unwilling to stand up to a cabal of extremists from safe Republican districts, because the mainstream Republicans fear primary challenges from extremists next year. They are putting their tenure in Congress ahead of the best interests of the vast majority of their fellow Americans. To paraphrase a former president, these gutless, self-absorbed politicians are profiles in cowardice!

Now I'll be the last to argue if you want to say some of these politicians are gutless and self absorbed; but I've jousted with this particular commenter before; and while the poster is at least willing to hear the other side, this fellow rarely hears what he doesn't like.  So, I responded.

It's not about the extremists,  (name removed). Too many of us moderates as well are tired of Obama's high handed executive orders and Harry Reid's turning the Senate into his personal "I am right room". We are not gutless, we are tired of being bullied, especially by Reid. Harry Reid would rather let people suffer than budge one inch on getting EVERYTHING he wants. Republicans have been left with two choices- wage this fight or roll over. Just because YOU like the policy does not make it right or wrong, and I am sick to death of being accused of being "intimidated by the Tea Party" when Harry Reid's intransigence is driving ALL republicans there!

Congress and the President are supposed to govern all the people. You think that's just fine when you are defending Abortion clinics, gay marriage, and those who are afraid they'll burst into flames at the sight of a Cross, but for those who can't afford the premiums the Obamacare mandates will force on them, for those who believe that EVERY district should be heard from, it's "to hell with you!" How many people are losing their jobs or their hours because of Obamacare, how many going into the "collective " are finding that $14000 deductables make their government sponsored insurance virtually worthless? This isn't scare tactics, it is happening,
(name removed). We could be working together to find where these things are happening and fix them. But Harry Reid doesn't want to talk. In my mind, He's the only coward in this story. But as long as he gets his exemption, and those for his Union paymasters, he's fine with it.

I hope the shutdown lasts the rest of the admistration. Or until Harry drops dead, whichever comes first. He is a poison that is destroying this country, NOT the Tea Party, and NOT John Boehner.

As you can see, I am getting a little tired of people describing a group of citizens standing up for their rights as if they sprout horns and carry pitchforks.  And the response back, and my inserted commentary for your benefit:

Mr. Martin,
Your partisanship is only exceeded by the inaccuracy of your statistics.

First off, "MY partisanship?  Oh, but it's only partisanship if you don't agree.  Second, "MY statistics?" I gave ONE number, and we'll get to that in a bit.

Ben Stein is a traditional, conservative Republican. Ben Stein worked for Republican presidents. Ben Stein is not an elected official, so he is free to speak his mind. A few days ago, Ben Stein called the actions of the Republican-dominated U.S. House of Representatives wasteful. Ben Stein stated that Obamacare is the law of the land, and that Republicans should pass a clean budget bill and move on. According to Ben Stein, if Obamacare is a disaster, Congress can fix it or replace it. If Obamacare works well, Republicans can truly move on to other issues.
I agree with Ben Stein!

First here, Has the left's own commentators become so discredited that they feel they have to co-op Ben Stein (or, as Rush Limbaugh so excellently pointed out, William F. Buckley)?

Second, an elected official is NOT "free to speak his mind?"  They can if you ask me. 

Third, "Congress can fix or replace (Obamacare)."  Well, part of Congress has been trying to do just that these last few months, but Harry Reid will NOT allow it to be touched- WHICH I believe I had already pointed out.

Fourth, I am tired of everybody from Obama on down saying "It's the law of the land".  When the President blatantly ignores the law of the land (on subjects such as immigration and political appointments), and the GOP is trying to change bad law the only way Harry Reid cannot stop (which by the way, is also legal- it's called REPEAL), then I have to say that THAT comment is rich to the point of being hypocritical.

Your last statement speaks volumes. You and your fellow-travelers are comfortable forcing America and Americans to suffer in order to make an ideological statement over a moot issue. How patriotic of all of you!

I and my fellow travelers are the ones forcing people to suffer.  Hmmm.  Who's deciding what's getting shut down?  Who is it (answer: Harry Reid) who thinks that a family getting a paycheck equals a child getting treated for cancer?  Who is it that won't accept the House's "piecemeal funding" of programs like these BECAUSE he doesn't want to budge on a controversial and badly flawed law?

A moot issue?  Definition: an issue that the liberals have their way on.

And don't you DARE question my patriotism JUST because it doesn't match your socialism!

And that's basically, though less calmly, what I responded:

It's not a moot issue, it's a bad law. You have a lot of nerve , ideological statements my butt. Why keep a law YOU KNOW will hurt people? Your "it's the law of the land" argument is ridiculous, because a) laws are no longer written in stone and (if you haven't noticed) have been repealed for decades, and B) the propensity of Obama to overrule DULY PASSED laws with executive orders and by failing to enforce rules he doesn't like.

My last statement was made in frustration over a man who'd rather let kids with cancer go without treatment than bend and pass "piecemeal bills" that he agrees with just to get his way? It's NEVER a moot issue to get rid of a bad law that's going to hurt SO MANY people!

Whoopie, you and Ben Stein and Barbra Streisand are in agreement! What would the republic do without you?

You want the shutdown over, tell Reid to negotiate! Why should those of us who disagree roll over to please you?

But rather than answering my charges, what he replies is:

Mr. Martin,
Interesting...You now link one of America's conservative icons, Ben Stein, with one of America's most notable liberal entertainers, because he disagrees with you.

No, what I'm saying is that just because a celebrity or expert, whether they are knowledgeable like Stein or a complete moron like Babs, agrees with your position doesn't mean I should say, "Oh, well that makes it different" and roll over.

FYI -- Ben Stein's undergraduate degree is in economics from Columbia University. He then went on to Yale Law, where he was valedictorian of his graduating class. He worked in both the Nixon and Ford Administrations, primarily as a speechwriter and political advisor. Concurrent with this, his father, Herb Stein was Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors for Presidents Nixon and Ford. I'll take Ben's analysis ahead of yours any day of the week!

Again, I have given ONE number (though that's going to change soon).    And I didn't know Ben and I were having a contest.  Thanks for letting me know, I'll go get a degree.

Here's another quote from a source most consider quite conservative, Forbes Magazine, in a current article: "For investors, ObamaCare provides opportunities especially if they can avoid getting emotional over the politics and their personal opinions of the law." I suggest you control your passions, read this article in its entirety, and make some money the old-fashioned American way by making some sage investments!

Which I find funny that he brings up.  Not only because it is WAAAAAAY beyond the point of MY comments, but because I thought if you are liberal, you are supposed to DESPISE people that take advantage of such things to make a fortune, not QUOTE them!

At any rate, here's where I give him numbers- and a little more:

I have a friend who tried to get on the exchange. With Type I Diabetes as a pre-existing condition, he opted for the silver plan and found he was to have a monthly premium of nearly $600 and a deductible of $14k. He told them he'd opt out, and was told he'd be subject to a fine of $4300+ and that they could suspend his Drivers license and attach his house. This is affordable? This is fair? Kiss my ass. (Not surprisingly, I've gotten no response to THAT bit of deathless prose.)

So here we have me, trying to point out the ARROGANCE of believing only your own point of view.  If I think Obamacare is bad, then:

-I have bad facts;
-I am an extremist;
-any politician who believes what I do is a coward;
-I am forcing Americans to suffer.
-and I am "patriotic" (with a sneer).

If I just gave Obamacare a chance:

-I could find investment opportunities;
-I would be much smarter, as I would be listening to men like Ben Stein (who no doubt HAS his exemption);
-I could be much calmer, and make a lot of money!

Now, let me explain what I do know:
-I COULD have handled that better.
-There are Republican pols that have no more care for who they are affecting than for the cigarette butt they just crushed out.
-There are things within Obamacare that, done properly MIGHT be a good thing.
-I dislike being told I am an extremist because I am not a liberal just as much as I loathe being told that I don't like Obama because he is black.  Both of those are untrue.  I am not a liberal because I have an honest belief that their policies are misguided.  I am against Obamacare because it is bad law that got jammed down our throats and should be at the least re-examined.  (Which is also interesting- if Ben Stein wants to pass a "clean budget", why not support passage of a "clean health care bill", which this definitely is NOT)  And I dislike Obama for too many reasons to go into here, most of which you would be hard pressed to know his color by them if you never heard of him.  But just so I answer the unvoiced question, let's just start with "I don't like people who are awarded Nobel Prizes before they even have an opportunity to earn them... and keep them after they do actions that would have caused the prize to be removed if he weren't a leftist (see Ho Chi Minh).

Okay, rant done.  I really hope Reid doesn't drop dead...but if he should have to have his medical treatment decided by the "death panel" bureaucracy, well...


  1. The longer this thing goes on, and the more stunts Obama pulls (closing the OCEAN, really?) The more and more respect he looses. I mean, I always try to be respectful even if I don't agree, but this man has completely rendered me speechless. After all of the campaigns on bullying recently, and he sits on his "throne" pitching a fit? I can't even... I have to stop writing on the subject because I just don't know what to say anymore. Sadly, the most staunch supporters of this nonsense behave exactly the same way, as clearly illustrated in this post. Sometimes... people just... *throws hands up and walks away*

  2. Good responses, BROTHER MARTIN.

    And your idiotic arguing partner should thank his lucky sta-- his communistic stars that it was you he was arguing with and not me. Not that I would have out-debated him any more than you did, but it would have been an uglier, bloodier mess.

    In short, I've lost my patience with traitors and I'm inclined nowadays to just bypass the "respect stage" and go right to my machete.

    ~ D-FensDogg
    'Loyal American Underground'

  3. Chris:
    Only ONE word sums up your take on all this...


    (and that's NEVER to be confused with the cable/satellite channel...thank God)
    Love the comments, as well...always love to see people that THINK...and REASON...and find the TRUTH.

    Great post.

    Stay safe up there.

    1. Dear friends:
      I finally got a response out of my opponent: Basically, you keep "your friend" and I'll take Ben Stein". Which in addition to his being totally off-topic yet again, left me the opening to quote Captain America: "You have your definition of a hero, and I have mine. Mine includes being a little more aware." I'll take Cap over Ben Stein any day.

  4. And all I can say is... I know where the first 500 budget cut backs/lay offs should come from.

    1. And once again, all I can do is agree.

  5. Chris:
    Thank you! I have on purpose avoided talking about the shutdown on Penwasser Place. I need a refuge somewhere. But (lucky you) you're a Facebook friend so you know how I feel. I do the best I possibly can to see the other side, but I just can't. Democrats will support Democrats. I get it. But, to accuse Republicans (which I am not) of destroying our government is insane. These fools (and they ARE fools) blindly follow the dictates of Dear Leader. I had a Facebook friend over at my real identity FB (yes, I am THAT crazy that I have TWO Facebook accounts) print an article from Mother Jones which said that the Democrats are the ones who want to negotiate. I asked her for the source of Mother Jones outrageous assertion. That was Friday. I haven't heard from her. These morons FEEL. They do not THINK. Okay, I'm done now. My head hurts. I'm going to look for pictures of monkeys smoking cigars now.

    1. I learned back in high school that Mother Jones is about as far from a reliable source as you can get without being on MSNBC. Maybe you should just look for the giant rubber duckies that I keep finding...